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Sask
Party Justice critic Don Morgan came out strongly in favour of
the government settling the Klassen and other suits, January
9, 2004
Operation of Justice
System -
1134 Saskatchewan Hansard May 21, 2003
Mr. Heppner: - Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker,
my question is for the Minister of Justice. Mr. Speaker, it's
been almost a year since Saskatoon police officer John Popowich
received $1.3 million in apology from the NDP (New Democratic
Party) government, this NDP government, for malicious prosecution.
At the time, former Justice
minister Chris Axworthy said six other people who were wrongfully
accused will likely receive compensation as well. He said, and
I quote: We would anticipate that in fairly short order we'll
be hearing from those plaintiffs. I think it is the first in
a series of settlements.
Mr. Speaker, almost a year
has passed since Chris Axworthy apologized to John Popowich and
promised similar action with the others who were maliciously
prosecuted by the NDP justice system. When is this government
going to do the right thing and apologize to those people as
well?
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Mr. Cline: - Mr. Speaker, I believe that 11
suits, other than the Popowich suit, have been filed in Saskatchewan
courts. Four of those are related to the investigation and prosecution
of the Martensville prosecution. Six other suits are related
to three other prosecutions and one suit has been withdrawn.
I want to say to the House, Mr. Speaker, that it is important
to note that the prosecutions branch deals with approximately
84,000 charges each year and about 18,000 prosecutions. We have
over the past 10 years, five cases that have given rise to 12
lawsuits.
I have every confidence in
our prosecutors, Mr. Speaker. If there are allegations that they
have done something wrong, in these cases those allegations can
be put before the courts and the courts will decide whether the
prosecutors have done something wrong. And that process is before
the courts and we will abide by the decision of the courts, Mr.
Speaker.
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr. Heppner: - Mr. Speaker, why is it that this
government has the penchant to hide behind, it's in the courts?
You would almost think that they love things in the courts so
they don't have to answer questions in the House or to the people
of Saskatchewan.
Mr. Speaker, across this country,
not just Canada but North America, people know of the Martensville
case; they know of the Klassen case; they know of the Milgaard
case - all things that have happened under the watch of this
NDP government. So I repeat, Mr. Speaker, to the minister: when
is this government going to do the right thing and apologize
to those people?
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Mr. Cline: - Mr. Speaker, I take it from the
member's question that the member has decided that the prosecutors
are in the wrong, and the police are in the wrong, and the plaintiffs
are in the right. That is what the member has said, Mr. Speaker.
In this particular instance, Mr. Speaker, justice . . . The plaintiffs
have their right to their day in court; so too the government,
the prosecutors, and the police have their right to their day
in court.
And ultimately, Mr. Speaker,
we have a system whereby the judges decide. I understand that
some of these cases are proceeding to trial. The courts will
decide. It is not for me to decide. It is not for the member
to decide, Mr. Speaker. It is for the courts to decide and we
will respect that process.
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr. Heppner: - Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people
that need an apology, Mr. Speaker, are the people who are involved
in the same situation as Mr. Popowich. The former Justice minister
apologized. If this Justice minister feels these people are guilty,
he should go out there and say that or give the apology as was
committed to by the former Justice minister, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, justice delayed
is justice denied. These people were falsely accused of one of
the most heinous crimes imaginable - the abuse of children. It
took eight years for John Popowich to receive some amount of
justice, even though nothing can really compensate him and his
family for what they all went through. But at least after eight
long years, he received compensation and an apology. The others,
Mr. Speaker, are still waiting.
Mr. Speaker, what's the holdup?
When are these people going to be compensated for the terrible
injustice they suffered at the hands of this NDP justice system?
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Mr. Cline: - Mr. Speaker, if it is in fact the
case that individuals have been subjected to false allegations
of abuse, the member knows that those allegations did not originate
with the government; they originated with other citizens. The
fact of the matter is when that happens, the police, the prosecutors,
are expected by society to respond in some way to those allegations.
I am not saying that anyone is guilty of anything. I'm not saying
these plaintiffs are guilty of anything; I'm not saying the police
necessarily are guilty of wrongdoing, or the prosecutors. That,
Mr. Speaker, is a matter of dispute between the parties. The
courts are set up to determine that. The plaintiffs will have
their day in court.
And the Leader of the Opposition,
Mr. Speaker, may have drawn his own conclusion; the Justice critic
may have drawn his own conclusion. They may have concluded the
plaintiffs are correct and the police and the prosecutors are
wrong. We, Mr. Speaker, are not judging the case. The case will
be decided on its merits in due course.
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr. Heppner: - Mr. Speaker, it's easy for this
government to haul out a truckload of lawyers and drive some
ordinary people of Saskatchewan into distraction wondering if
they'll be able to hold out against the resources that this NDP
government has with these people.
Mr. Speaker, 13 people in a
separate but similar case are also waiting for justice from this
government. Today
some of them are waiting on the front lawn of this legislature.
Richard Klassen and 12 others were falsely accused of abusing
three Saskatoon children in the early 1900s. The government was
willing to negotiate a settlement in the Popowich case - negotiate
the settlement, Mr. Speaker - but has been absolutely unwilling
to discuss settlement in the Klassen case.
What's the difference, Mr.
Speaker?
In both cases, the Justice
department falsely accused people of abusing children. In both
cases, the charges were found to be unfounded. And in both cases,
the people have had their lives and their reputations ruined
by this terrible false accusation. Mr. Speaker, why is the NDP
refusing a settlement case situation in the Klassen case?
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Mr. Cline: - Again, Mr. Speaker, I say to the
member opposite and I say to the public, the allegations of abuse
did not originate with the Department of Justice. There were
members of society that accused the plaintiffs of sexual abuse,
as I understand it. Those allegations were later withdrawn. That
is not the fault of the prosecutors. It is not the fault of the
police. If the prosecutors and the police acted on the allegations
in a wrong way, Mr. Speaker, the courts can determine that. And
the matter is before the courts, Mr. Speaker. It is fine for
the members of the opposition to take the side of the plaintiffs
against the police and against the prosecutors and say that the
police are wrong and the prosecutors are wrong. That's what they're
saying, Mr. Speaker. On this side of the House, we will respect
the process. The process is before the court. The plaintiffs
will have their day in court. The judge will decide.
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr. Heppner: - Mr. Speaker, that NDP government
and the former Justice minister settled out of court with Mr.
Popowich. The situations are similar. They know it. Everyone
in those front benches know it. They need to do the right thing
today. Mr. Speaker, time and again we've seen falsely accused
people by the NDP justice system, and everyone pays the price
except those who are responsible. David Milgaard spent 23 years
in prison for a crime he did not commit and then taxpayers paid
$10 million in compensation. But there were no consequences for
anyone in the justice system.
John Popowich was falsely accused,
maliciously prosecuted for child abuse. After eight long years,
taxpayers paid $1.3 million in compensation. But there were no
consequences for anyone in this NDP justice system.
Six others in the Martensville
case and eleven others in the Klassen case are still waiting
for justice from this government. But there are no consequences
in the justice system. Mr. Speaker, why did the NDP justice system
allowed . . . was allowed to botch up so many high-profile cases
with no consequences for anyone responsible?
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Mr. Cline: - Well, Mr. Speaker, in case the
member opposite doesn't know, the Milgaard case actually originated
about 30 years ago. I want the member to know that. My second
point, Mr. Speaker. The member opposite refers to the justice
system as the NDP justice system and I want that member to know,
Mr. Speaker, whether they want to hear it or not, that the police
and the prosecutors are not affiliated with any political party,
Mr. Speaker. They are not an NDP justice system. They are not
a Saskatchewan Party justice system. They are a justice system
that operates free and clear of politics. And, Mr. Speaker, the
members opposite would be well advised to take that kind of advice
and not politicize matters that shouldn't be politicized. The
police are not political. The prosecutors are not political.
Mistakes can be made in any system but the system is dealing
with a situation where individuals may make allegations against
others. And when you don't act on those you get criticized for
that as well, Mr. Speaker. Were mistakes made by the police and
prosecutors? I don't know. That will be determined by the courts.
The member says this case is the same as the Popowich case. If
the member had any personal knowledge of this case, then the
member himself should come to testify at court, Mr. Speaker.
But my point is, this matter should be left before the courts
who will properly deal with it, Mr. Speaker.
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr. Heppner: - Mr. Speaker, this NDP government
made a political decision and settled out of court with Mr. Popowich.
They need to take the same responsibility and make settlement
with other people who are falsely accused. They know they should.
They know they should.
Mr. Speaker, Saturday's paper
had another example of justice delayed being justice denied.
An individual from Carlyle was charged with sexual assault in
July of 2000. But the charges were thrown out in April. Why,
Mr. Speaker? Because it took the case too long to get to trial.
Mr. Speaker, that's a very disturbing conclusion to this case.
I have no idea whether the
accused was guilty or innocent and no one else in Saskatchewan
does either. But now we'll never know because the charges were
thrown out due to delays in this NDP justice system.
Mr. Speaker, what good is a
justice system that takes too long to deal in cases that the
judge simply dismisses the charges? What is being done to address
these lengthy delays?
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Mr. Cline: - Well I wanted to say in answer
to that question, Mr. Speaker, that if the delay was the fault
of the prosecutors or the police, then we need to look into that.
We are looking into it. My office has spoken to the director
of public prosecutions to get the reason for the delay. And we
need to take steps to make sure that that does not occur again.
But I also say to the member that this illustrates the point
that I was just saying to the member a moment ago, which is the
justice system will be criticized when it operates too zealously
and too quickly, as he's alleging it did, or when it doesn't
operate quickly enough on allegations, Mr. Speaker. And my point
is this. It is a system, Mr. Speaker, where some human beings
will make allegations against other human beings. In his first
questions the member criticizes the police and prosecutors for
acting on them. Now this question is he's criticizing them because
they didn't act quickly enough. Now that, that criticism, may
be warranted, Mr. Speaker. And if the criticism is found to be
warranted, then I can say to the member, we need to make sure
that doesn't happen again. But I also say to the member he ought
not to jump to conclusions. Neither should I. We should let the
proper authorities decide the case, Mr. Speaker.
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr. Heppner: - Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It's under
the watch of this NDP government that the justice system took
too long to prosecute in this case. That's a matter of looking
at the calendar. Surely this Justice minister can handle at least
something as simple as that and make sure that doesn't happen
in this particular province.
Mr. Speaker, what we are seeing
is a pattern of mismanagement of the justice system by this NDP
government. We see people like David Milgaard, who spent 23 years
in prison for a crime he did not commit. We see people like John
Popowich and Richard Klassen and others who are wrongfully accused,
maliciously prosecuted for crimes they did not commit. And then
they are forced to wait for years - that's the problem then,
Mr. Speaker - they're forced to wait for years for an apology
from this NDP government.
Then we see a case like this
one in Carlyle, where charges are dropped simply because the
justice system takes too long. Mr. Speaker, there seems to be
a pattern of mismanagement and botched cases in this NDP's justice
system. Why is the NDP mismanaging the justice system in this
province so badly?
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Mr. Cline: - Well, Mr. Speaker, if the member
doesn't know this, the member should know that there have been
people all over the United States found to be wrongly on death
row because of mistakes in justice systems. There have been mistakes
in justice systems throughout this country and throughout the
world, and we should do everything we can to make sure those
mistakes don't occur.
But I do want to say, Mr. Speaker,
that the police and the prosecutors in this province, I'm told,
review more than 84,000 charges each year; they deal with nearly
18,000 prosecutions. And what we have, Mr. Speaker, are over
the past 10 years, 5 cases giving rise to 12 lawsuits. That's
regrettable, Mr. Speaker, but is it a justice system out of control,
as described by the member opposite or different than other justice
systems?
The answer to that is absolutely,
no, Mr. Speaker. We have a very good justice system in Canada,
in Saskatchewan, staffed by competent police, competent prosecutors,
and I'm sure that they don't need the assistance of members opposite
who jump to all kinds of conclusions, Mr. Speaker.
Some Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
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Truth can never be
told so as to be understood, and not be believ'd. William Blake, The Proverbs of Hell
